I have tried this for months now, also the lemon version, with pre wash, no pre wash, hot water, cold water, a lot of detergent, only a little detergent.. I have thrown away my money. It is as good as using water. Plates always come out dirty, no matter if I leave a lot of space between them for water to hit. Glasses are always cloudy, I use the same brand's rinse aid and it's equally useless.